Trad climbing course

[Nate]

Hey
Just wondering if there was any interest to do a trad course in the spring. I talked to Nick about it and I know a couple of people that are interested, but the more people the less the cost or the more days we could run it, so who's in?? I'd just like a course that can show me how to set solid placements and solid anchors and maybe some multi-pitch.
Nate

[jnnfr]

Hey Nate,
Collin is definately interested! And I would be too, if there is room for a TOTAL beginner!
-jennifer

[Zamboni]

I'd have to know what material will be covered, b4 I'd fork out cash to learn something I already knew.

Conan.

[The Mitt]

Who would offer it? Are they qualified? What qualification do they have? Are they insured? What is the cost? Is there an outline for the course? What is it?

Probably all good questions to have answered before forking over cash. I would suggest that if you can't get a really good answer for each one its really not worth doing.

Mitt

[martha]

I still say that getting out and seconding/ apprenticing for someone with experience for a year is the best way to go. you get the mileage and learn things in the right environment and y ou always have someone there with the knowledge/experience to guide you on leads or walk you through anchors etc.

Nate... we've told you before... come to Freddy, stay with us. we'll take you out.

we need an extra belayer/pack horse now that either me or fred will have the baby to carry.

hehe

[The Mitt]

I could not agree more. The only thing you will learn from a course are basics, you will get so much more from seconding a knowledgeable leader.

Mitt

[szymiec]

If Nick is putting it on, you will have a great time and learn tons. I took an anchoring thing from him last summer and although i had done tons of Top roping already as well as tied anchors, i still gained a bunch of new knowledge and confidence. Plus i learned a new word "Bomber!"

Its a good word, no its a bomber word!

Chris

[The Mitt]

I think you can learn tons from just about anyone, especially an accomplished climber such as Nick. I don't think anyone here would challenge his knowledge or ability, but if I were taking a "course" on how to climb traditionally that I was paying money for I would want more. Like a course from an ACMG guide who is certified to teach the subject, is insured, and his/her course outline has been through scrutiny from many professionals. Maybe the instructor you speak of is qualified, and insured. I just put those questions out there to help arm people with knowledge, besides I was thinking of maybe sitting in on the course (depending on the cost, and what I would get out of it). Never hurts to get back to the basics and learn something different from someone.

Mitt

[Pierre]

I would be interested in learn how to Trad climb... Would consider a course but think it would take more than course to feel comfortable trad climbing.

Think that apprenticing with someone would be great but it not so easy to find a experienced trad climber willing to take you out.

Later

[The Mitt]

We currently have a group that goes out about every weekend in the summer and the less experienced climbers usually hook up with the more experienced climbers. Nothing official but still very productive and mostly just fun.

Mitt

[dr. dre]

maybe cns could develop certification for people to teach trad..


HA HA HAHAHAHAH...

[martha]

maybe cns could develop certification for people to teach trad..


HA HA HAHAHAHAH...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

oh that was a good one.... how have you been D?

[dquinn]

I still say that getting out and seconding/ apprenticing for someone with experience for a year is the best way to go. you get the mileage and learn things in the right environment and y ou always have someone there with the knowledge/experience to guide you on leads or walk you through anchors etc.

Which is why trad sucks so much ass. A year! I could "apprentice" to learn a trade in that much time. Talk about an entry barrier. I can't think of any other sport in existence that has such an entry barrier. I guess that what keeps the numbers of trad climbers so low - well that and natural selection - not many people are rushing to risk their life messing around with shoddy gear to climb a 5.8

Give 'er

[The Mitt]

I think what ever you enjoy is the part of the sport for you. I like bouldering, sport climbing, and trad climbing none of which I do very well, but all of it I do safely. I like messing around with the gear, I like getting scared (reasonably). Its a super fun facit to the sport, for me just as fun as the others.

Mitt

[ben smith]

nick has freed the muir wall as well as climbed professonally for a number of years - in terms of certification to teach someone how to place gear I think that speaks for itself. I've got nothing against apprenticeship but if you want to learn to do something quickly and in the best possible way with regards to rock climbing nick is probably the one best qualified in the province to do that.

[The Mitt]

Once again I never said he wasn't qualified or capable, I am in no position to say someone is or is not capable (I don't think anyone would question his accomplishments). However whats wrong with asking those questions? I ask that of any instructor or guide for just about anything. I would like to know if my instructor is going to be insured to teach climbing outdoors, or if he/she has been qualified by any reputable organization. Better to ask these questions now cause you will be s.h.i.t out of luck if you get into an accident.

Mitt

[Eager]

I'm by no means a full on Trad climber but have definately put some time on rope. Placing gear to a certain degree takes a bit of knowledge, but mostly it's common sense. Building anchors like Chris mentioned and the capabilities of self rescue are something that makes Trad climbing safe. Nate why dont you just take the instructors course? Nick is more than qualified to show anyone around here how to place gear etc. and I'm sure you'd learn a lot. But confidence is built on self reliance when you step onto a big climb. Being able to escape a belay or get yourself out of a cluster$#&* is the best way to approach rope systems. Learn the rescue skills, knots, and anchor systems first. It's not something you learn overnight. That's what I'd be looking for in a course. As far as ACMG guides go, I've been Ice climbing, Ski Mountaineering, Mountaineering and Rock climbing with them, but rope systems are rope systems. They know how to self rescue and their job is to make sure that their clients make it home safe. How many times a year do you think they guide someone up a 5.11 climb or a grade 5 waterfall my guess is not too many. I've stood at the approach to a mountain I was supposed to climb and had them shut the climb down due to a snowstorm. It's their job to make those calls. There capabilities are not superhuman, they are just more knowledgeable in the environments and systems they operate within.

[mike]

I disagree Eager. Based on the entry requirements of the ACMG program and my experience with ACMG Guides... I believe that they are, in fact, superhuman. It's not how many times a year they guide people up difficult climbs- it's that every single one of them is fully capable of doing it... and doing in in fine style while considering and minimizing risk to an acceptable level based on the client guide relationship.

Put em out with a few friends, removing the client/guide safety factor, and you've got a broad based, fully capable, steeped in wisdom, superhuman climber.

Mike

[martha]

Which is why trad sucks so much ass. A year! I could "apprentice" to learn a trade in that much time. Talk about an entry barrier. I can't think of any other sport in existence that has such an entry barrier. I guess that what keeps the numbers of trad climbers so low - well that and natural selection - not many people are rushing to risk their life messing around with shoddy gear to climb a 5.8

Give 'er

no... you just have to live somewhere that isn't 'bouldering central'. that is why halifax 'sucks so much a$$' cause there aren't any great places to trad climb where you can have 300 routes at your disposal any given day and everyone at the crag only trad climbing.

and what about doing any sport to a professional level... you aren't going to be an olymic skiier, figure skater or bob sledder without doing your time, getting some lessons and working with others who are better/more experienced than you to learn from... so ALL sports have entry barriers.

all I was saying is that apprenticing.. with 'time on the rock' 'mileage' 'experience' etc etc will do you better than just a single course. A course taught over a weekend is awesome, but then you have to get out and use those skills repeatedly and immediately to make any good use of the lessons you have learned. IF you have a course at your disposal... take it..... and also find an experienced climber to be your partner for the season and get out at least twice a week doing just trad climbing. THEN you'll feel good ahead of your gear, at belay stations and in front of any climb you could walk up to within your climbing skill level.

[seanT]

DQ MCMUFFIN get off the board and out scrubbing chump I want to see those boulders clean and ready to go!!

[ben smith]

yeah dave where are those boulders at. i'm fiending for some new bus route problems.

[mathieu]

I can't think of any other sport in existence that has such an entry barrier. I guess that what keeps the numbers of trad climbers so low - well that and natural selection - not many people are rushing to risk their life messing around with shoddy gear to climb a 5.8

Give 'er

And that is why they call it SPORT climbing. Trad climbing isn't a sport. I consider sports to usually involve a ball, althought trad climbing requires some balls I make joke in English

[Nate]

I've been trad climbing for a season now. I can comfortably climb 5.9 trad climbs, but everything I've climbed I've lead more or less with out falling. I want to be able to push my grades now and feel safer. Looking at my placements I know that they'll..theoritically bomb-proof, but I'm still not 100% fine with falling.
I want a course that will allow me to know how to place stuff and know for sure that it'll hold, be comfortable falling, and set up an effiecent belay. I want to be able to feel completely secure with everything else and then just worry about the climbing, that way I'll be able to push my self further and not "climb 5.9's my whole career".
I'm not sure about costs or nomber of days. I'd just like to see the interest and work from there. Interested in a course like that? tell me and it'll get aranged.

NAte

[Scooter]

I don't think you'll ever be able to climb a route and feel 100% about every placement. Your gonna have to place not so bombproof or sketchy gear and keep climbing. I don't think a course can teach you to be 100% confident in every placement. A course will show you how to maximize your placements and such, but the decision is ultimately up to you. Something that may see bomber to me, may not to you. Just keep doing what your doing Nate, I've seen you trad climb and you got a solid head on your shoulders. Im sure Nick wouldn't mind teaching you a few things, and Cara already invited you to Freddy. Forget paying for a course!

[Nate]

Do you also remember how long it took me to climb Enchantment? It'd be a lot nicer to slot in a placement, check it out for a sec, clip it and cruise onwards....at least for my poor belayers sake.
Nate

[martha]

Do you also remember how long it took me to climb Enchantment? It'd be a lot nicer to slot in a placement, check it out for a sec, clip it and cruise onwards....at least for my poor belayers sake.
Nate

First of all... never ever worry about how long you are taking on a line. Your belayers job is to keep you safe at all times and not ever complain about crap. That is just bad Karma. You want to climb at a speed and level that is comfortable for you. The more practice you get, the quicker you'll go. I used to take forever... I remember taking 20 minutes or more on 'It's a way of Life 5.4' and putting in about 8 pieces. Now, I easily do it in just a few minutes and only put in 3 pieces of gear... and only for the 'what if' scenario, as I would be comfortable soloing it. Now, even on an onsight, although I'm slower than Fred (by a long shot) I am quicker than I was when I first started leading trad.

You'll eventually look at a crack when you are 3 ft below it and say 'that is a yellow metolious' and grab the cam, slam it in and keep going... or you'll look at it from 3 ft below and say 'flowers, that is a Blue Smiley and I used it 30ft ago. I guess I'll have to make due with the red one'... and you'll know that the gear isn't 'bomber' but you'll have no choice but to climb past it and hope for the best.

Knowing how to always put gear in 100% bomber doesn't mean that you'll always be able to do that on a climb. you are limited by the gear on your rack, and the features in the rock. "Wow, look at that pocket... I sure wish I had a red tri-cam" ... if you don't have one... you don't have one.. and tri-cams are one of those pieces that just can't be replicated by anything else. .. so sometimes you are just SOL with the only choice being .. keep going up.

Nate, you are super strong, and from what I've seen (though on sport) you have a solid head, so just mileage alone on the rock will help you push the grades. The more you do, the more you'll be comfortable with. That, and going to new areas and being forced into new situations on safe ground. We can send you up dozens of routes that are safe, and well within your climbing ability, but will test your head and gear placing.

[Nate]

Dudes, I just want the backround knowledge to set good placements and anchor. I'm not willing to freg around with either of those things being the least bit shoddy for another season because looking back I'm made some disgusting placements and even more that I don't know about. I want for somebody else to tell me whats good or whats not because if they don't then a fractured something or other will. Look at that guy that decked in Freddy, I don't want to be paralyzed. I'm quite certain I know more than he did, but why not educate myself? Maybe I don't.



Nate

[martha]

yup... I agree with you Nate. What I'm saying is a course is great, but it can't show you dozens of different scenarios... those you get with your mileage and experience. So you really have to follow one with the other.

When I started leading trad, Fred would second for me and tell me what my placements were like. Usually they were pretty good. That came after nearly 2 years of seconding for him and really paying attention to his placements etc. Seconding make for great learning if you pay attention to what your leader is doing.. assuming your leader is competent!!

Once again, come climb with us! hehe..

[Nate]

Yeah I'll have to look into finding a way up there sometime. Anyways, is anybody else interested in booking a course like this with Nick??
NAte

[dquinn]

and what about doing any sport to a professional level... you aren't going to be an olymic skiier, figure skater or bob sledder without doing your time, getting some lessons and working with others who are better/more experienced than you to learn from... so ALL sports have entry barriers.

Are you serious?? Are we talking about the same thing? An entry barrier to a sport and training to the Olympic level are unrelated. You suggested it would take a year of apprentice to be able to trad climb safely and competently at an amateur level.

I could rent a pair of skis, receive 30 minutes of instruction, hit the bunny hill and ski safely. Same goes for figure skating. I would suck, but I could be having good, safe fun. Would you feel comfortable giving someone 30 minutes of instruction and sending them out to trad climb on their own? Hence the entry barrier…

Hell, if could go to the Olympics climbing trad in 1 year sign me up!